Finiteness in Sheaf Topoi
19 Aug 2024 - Tags: topos-theory
The notion of “finiteness” is constructively subtle in ways that can be
tricky for people new to the subject to understand. For a while now I’ve
wanted to figure out what’s going on with the different versions of “finite”
in a way that felt concrete and obvious (I mentioned this in a few older
blog posts here and here), and for me that means I want to
understand them inside a sheaf topos
As a short life update before we get started, I’m currently in Denmark with my advisor to hang out with Fabian Haiden. We’re going to be talking about all sorts of fun things related to my thesis work, mainly about Fukaya Categories. These can be really scary when you first start reading about them, but in the special case of surfaces they’re really not that bad! In the process of prepping for meeting Fabian, I’ve been writing a blog post that explicitly details what fukaya categories are, why you should care, and (for surfaces) how to compute them. I know I would have loved an article like this, and I’m excited to share one soon! I’m also finally going to finish my qual prep series from three years ago! Way back then I promised a post on fourier theory that I never got around to, but I recently found a draft of that post! So it might not be 100% true to what I was studying back then, but it’ll be as true to that as I can make it1.
With all that out of the way, let’s get to it!
First, let’s just recall the notions of finiteness you’re likely to find in the literature2. Keep in mind that, depending on the reference you’re reading, each of these is liable to be called just “finite” without disambiguation. Sometimes you even get more confusing conventions, (such as writing “subfinite” to mean what we call “kuratowski finite”!) so make sure you read carefully to know exactly what each particular author means! For this post, though, we’ll write:
If
A set
A set
A set
A set
It’s pretty obvious from these definitions that dedekind finiteness is a bit different from the others. This comes with pros and cons, but in my experience it’s rarely the thing to consider. I’m including its definition more for cultural growth than anything, and I won’t say anything more about it in this post3.
Also, notice we’re putting an existential quantifier in front of everything.
Externally, this means that we’re allowed to pass to an open cover
of our base space and use a different
It’s interesting to ask what the “untruncated” versions of these will be.
I think that untruncated bishop finite types are exactly the cardinals,
untruncated subfinite types are disjoint unions of finitely many propositions…
But it’s not clear to me what the untruncated kuratowski finite types should be.
Something like “finitely many copies of
Introducing Finiteness
Now, how should we go about visualizing these things? Every sheaf on
Let’s start simple and let
So if
The situation is only slightly more complicated if
Because of this, we end up with more sets
So cardinals are really really easy to work with! This is what we
would expect, since they’re subsheaves of a particularly simple sheaf (
We also see why a cardinal is either empty or inhabited! As soon as you
have a piece of a section over
Next up are the bishop finite sets10! These satisfy
Since
In fact, the bishop finite sets are exactly the covering spaces with finite fibres. These inherit lots of nice properties from the cardinals, since as far as the internal logic is concerned they’re isomorphic to cardinals!
For instance, here’s an internal proof that bishop finite sets have decidable equality:
We can also see this externally. As before, this is saying that two
sections over
Note that the subsheaf (really sub-etale space) where the fibres are the same
really is a clopen subset (read: a connected component) of the whole space
As a last remark, let’s also notice that bishop finite sets can be
inhabited without being pointed. That is, a bishop finite set
Ok, now let’s get to the example that led me to write this post! How should we visualize kuratowski finite sets? These are (locally) quotients of cardinals, so we start with a cardinal (which we know how to visualize) and then we want to start gluing stuff together.
Let’s start with a trivial double cover of
You can see that this space still deserves to be called “finite”
over
The failure of hausdorffness and the failure of decidable equality are
closely related. For example, consider the two sections from the previous
picture. Decidable equality says that they should be either everywhere
equal or everywhere unequal12. But of course they aren’t! They’re
equal in some places (over
Following Richard Borcherds, hausdorffness is
also closely related to a kind of “analytic continuation”. Indeed, say your
etale space
Here’s an easy exercise to see this for yourself and check your knowledge of the topology on the etale space of a sheaf:
Let
As a hint, consider the set
In fact, if
solution
First assume
Conversely, assume
Say that every neighborhood of
When I was trying to picture kuratowski finite objects inside
Going back to examples, we should ask if we recognize the sheaf of
sections for our favorite “line with two origins” picture from earlier.
Away from
Since our epi
If you look up an example of a kuratowski finite set that isn’t
bishop finite (for example, in Section 2.2.2 of Graham Manuell’s
excellent note), you’re likely to find the example
Away from
Kuratwoski finite sets can be shockingly complicated!
Especially in contrast to the relatively tame
bishop finite sets. For example, consider
This space is kuratowski finite in
Since even the choice of
In fact, on mastodon (here and here), Antoine Chambert-Loir and
Oscar Cunningham pointed out that you can do even weirder things. For instance,
the set
Finally, let’s talk about subfinite sets. These are locally subobjects of cardinals, so are much easier to visualize again!
A subobject of a cardinal is just a disjoint union of open subsets of
So a subfinite set has to locally look like these. Keep in mind, though,
that like kuratowski finite sets, the choice of
In particular, we see that the fibres of a subfinite set don’t need to be globally bounded! So, perhaps surprisingly, a subfinite set does not need to be a subobject of a bishop finite set!
As we’ve come to expect, the existential quantifier gives us the ability to twist.
As subobjects of decidable objects, we see these inherit decidable equality. However, while bishop and kuratowski finite objects are all either empty or inhabited, subfinite sets don’t need to be! For an easy example, consider
Here the truth value of
An aside on decidable equality
This isn’t technically about visualizing etale spaces, but I was thinking about it while writing this post, and I think it fits well enough to include. If nothing else, it’s deifnitely interesting enough to include!
If you’re really paying attention, you’ll notice the “easy exercise” about analytic continuation didn’t actually use any aspects of finiteness. Indeed, we can prove the following (very general) theorem:
Let
- The etale space of
is hausdorff - Sections of
satisfy “analytic continuation”, in the sense that two sections agreeing on a stalk17 must agree everywhere they’re defined has decidable equality in the internal logic of
This comes from a mathoverflow answer by Elías Guisado Villalgordo
To check the equivalence of
Externally, this says that for every
Clearly if
Conversely, say
Then for any
Thus
If you’ve internalized this, it makes it geometrically believable that a decidable kuratowski finite set is actually bishop finite! I think it’s fun to see this fact both syntactically (reasoning in the internal logic) and semantically (reasoning about bundles), so let’s see two proofs!
First, a syntactic proof:
Note the image of
And now a semantic proof:
By refining our covers, then, we may fix an open cover
It’s worth meditating on why these are actually the same proof! In both cases we use decidability to “remove duplicates” from our enumeration.
Which Finite to Use?
Constructively, bishop and kuratowski finiteness encode two aspects of
finiteness which are conflated in the classical finite world. Bishop finite
sets are those which admit a cardinality. They’re in bijection with some
Of course, knowing how to biject a set
This bifurcation might feel strange at first, but in some squishy sense it happens classically too once you start working with infinite sets. Indeed in set theory the notion of finiteness bifurcates into cardinals, which have a defined notion of “size”, and ordinals, which have a defined notion of “order” (kind of like an enumeration… if you squint).
So when you’re working constructively, ask why you’re using finiteness.
Do you really need to know that something literally has
Subfiniteness, which amounts to being contained in some
In any case, as long as we work with decidable things, these notions all coincide. As we saw earlier, a decidable quotient of a bishop finite set (that is, a decidable kuratowski finite set) is again bishop finite. Similarly, a complemented subset of a bishop finite set is finite (this is lemma D5.2.3 in the elephant, but it’s not hard to see yourself). So if you’re working in a context where everything is decidable, finite sets work exactly as you would expect! This is part of why constructive math doesn’t have much to say about combinatorics and algebra. Most arguments are already constructive for decidable finite sets (which is what you’re picturing when you picture a finite set and do combinatorics to it). Sometimes you can push things a bit farther though, and this can be interesting. See, for instance, Andreas Blass’s paper on the Constructive Pigeonhole Principle.
Another blog post done! I’m writing this on a train to Odense right now, and once I get to my room I’ll draw all the pictures and post it.
Hopefully this helps demystify the ways in which constructive math might look strange at first. Once again the seemingly bizarre behavior is explained by its vastly greater generality! When you first learn that a subset of a (bishop) finite set need not be (bishop) finite, it sounds so strange as to be unusable! But once you learn that this is an aspect of “everywhere definedness” in a space of parameters (read: the base space) it becomes much more palatable.
Thanks, as always, for hanging out. Try to keep cool during this summer heat (though it’s actually really pleasant in Denmark right now), and I’ll see you all soon ^_^.
Here’s a picture of me and Peter right after we got off the train:
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And, of course, I still really want to finish the blog post on 2-categories and why you should care… There’s just so many other things to think about and to write! It also feels like a big topic because I have a lot to say, and that makes me a bit scared to actually start. Especially since I’ve been writing a lot of longer form posts lately (like the three part series on the topological topos, and I can tell the fukaya post is going to be long too…) ↩
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Here we’re using the expected abbreviations.
We write
to mean and .We write
to mean andWe write
to mean and . ↩ -
If you want to learn more about it, I highly recommend Stout’s Dedekind Finiteness in Topoi. I don’t know of a good way to visualize the dedekind finite objects in
(though I haven’t tried at all – I want this to be a quick post) which was another reason to exclude them. ↩ -
Which I often do, but not today. ↩
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And I want this to be a quick post, finished within a day or two of starting. So I don’t have time to think if there’s something slicker (and intuitively I don’t expeect there to be).
Edit: I got about as close to “within a day or two” as is possible for me, haha. I started writing this on August 12, and it looks like I’ll get it posted on August 18. Given I went a few days without working on it, that’s not too bad! ↩
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That is, a space built by gluing together opens of
along common intersections ↩ -
Johnstone’s Elephant defines a cardinal to be a pullback of the “universal cardinal”. In
this is an object in and is shown in the following picture: -
We’ll still assume that
is locally connected, though, since that makes them much easier to draw.It’s important to remember that our geometric intuition is likely to fail us if we start considering, say, sheaves on the cantor space! ↩
-
Remember truth values are open sets in the base space, so the truth value of
will be ↩ -
I’m like… at least 90% sure it’s an accident these are both named after positions of authority in catholicism. ↩
-
Here we use the common abuse of notation of abbreviating “
” by just “ ”. It measures “to what extent” there exists an element of . That is, its truth value is the support of over – ↩ -
Well, it says this should be true locally. But it’s easy to see we’ll have a problem in any neighborhood of
. ↩ -
I stole this whole exercise from this mathoverflow answer by Elías Guisado Villalgordo ↩
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In that same Richard Borcherds video, for instance, which I know I watched when it came out. In fact, lots of references on etale spaces, in hindsight, emphasize the fact that etale spaces can be highly nonhausdorff. My guess is that I’m not the first person to have made this mistake, haha, and I know that when I teach etale spaces going forwards I’m going to be sure to emphasize this too!
In his talk Nonetheless One Should Learn the Language of Topos, Colin McLarty compares etale spaces to a piece of mica (around the 1h04m mark), and I think I’m starting to see what he means. ↩
-
Concretely you can build this space by gluing two copies of
together along their common open subset . ↩ -
This is a fun example to think about. Why does it have only countably many sections at
, rather than uncountably many? Can you picture its topology at all? See the linked mastodon posts for more discussion. ↩ -
Saying that
and agree on the stalk at is saying that there’s an open neighborhood of where on that neighborhood.So this is another way of saying that as soon as two sections agree on an arbitrarily small neighborhood, they must agree on their whole (connected) domain! ↩